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Tuesday, July 28, 2009

The CONTINUING evolution of Evolution...

How convenient it must be to be an evolutionary biologist. Ignore the obvious. Look for an alternative. Invent a theory. Then, no matter how much evidence to the contrary, just retrofit your theory with each new discovery.

Forgive me folks. But the whole evolution/creation controversy just gets my blood boiling. Surfing Yahoo this morning, I found this interesting story, and it just kind of stirred my thoughts a bit. Here's an excerpt from what I read:

"Moreover, we found smectite in only some locations in South China, and not uniformly as one would expect for marine deposits," Bristow said. "Taken together, several lines of evidence indicated to us that these early animals lived in a lake environment."

This discovery raises questions as to how and why animals appeared when they did.

"It is most unexpected that these first fossils do not come from marine sediments," said researcher Martin Kennedy, a geologist at the University of California at Riverside.

"Lakes are typically short-lived features on the Earth's surface, and they are not nearly as consistent environments as oceans are," he explained. "So it's surprising that the first evidence of animals we find is associated with lakes, which are far more variable environments than the ocean. You'd expect the first appearance of animals to be in the most conservative, stable environments we could imagine."

It remains possible, Kennedy noted, that animal fossils of similar or older age exist that remain to be found that are marine in origin. However, at the very least, this work suggests "that animals had already taken on the ability to deal with the environmental fluctuations one sees in lake environments," he said. "That suggests that their evolutionary response is much more rapid that I would have supposed, and that the earliest animals were far more diverse than imagined."

Hmmm…whaddaya know? The earliest animals were far more diverse {read complete} than imagined. Note the key word: imagined. You see that's what evolutionists since Darwin have done…they imagine an explanation, pretend it is fact, and ignore the obvious. Wow, the reptilian back bone is awfully similar to the avian back bone. Huh, must be evolved from one another. Forget the fact that both species still exist at the same time. Look at the human fetus at its earliest stages. Wow, it sure looks like a fish. We must be evolved from marine life.

The Yahoo article just goes to show that science does NOT know it all. Things keep inconveniently being discovered that mess with their theories. Think about some of the evolutionary claims over time. Darwin himself believed that the fossil record MUST have evidence of transitional forms, that is millions of gradual changes between on species to the next. Darwin was bedeviled by the lack of these transitional forms, but hoped that future discoveries would bear out his theory. Well, a century later: {Game Show Wrong Answer Buzzer} Sorry Darwin, thanks for playing. We have some swell consolation prizes for you backstage! The fossil record is void of transitional forms. What we see are fully formed species suddenly "appearing." You'd think that perhaps, that would have done evolution in. Nope, it was just too good of an "out" from the whole "God made us and might have a claim on our lives" idea. So what did evolutionary scientists do? They propose the theory of punctuated equilibrium. Basically, evolution doesn't really happen in a long, drawn out process like they thought. No, instead, it happens in dynamic bursts. WHOOSH! And then it goes cold and slow again. Yeah, that's the ticket.

As I've said in the past, isn't it possible that maybe, just maybe the reason that living organisms share so many common traits is that the same Artist created them? After all, you can look at a series of paintings and tell if they are Monet versus Dali. And how? By the traits they share in common. You do not look at one painting and conclude that the other evolved from it. That would be nonsense.

I remember sitting in an anthropology class at the University of Maryland as an undergrad and hearing the Prof spout on about evolution as a fact. Drawings, animations, a fossil here and there, and the Prof just concluded for all of us: you are descended from apes. You are a genetic accident…having arrived by a miraculous chain of random events. Oops, I said "miraculous." Thing is, I wasn't even a Christian at the time, and I remember thinking, "That's ridiculous! Look at all the frauds from Pilt Down Man to Nebraska Man to Haekel's Drawings! How can I trust this stuff?"

Now I know why we cannot trust this stuff. It's just not true. The most powerful evidence supporting evolution is "Imaginary Evidence." Theory built upon theory, built upon theory.

You are not a galactic accident. A knowing, loving Creator made you. He designed you with great care and has put purpose in your life.


Barie-ah Hue-en-la said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
~Prism~ said...

I loved this post! I'm so privileged to have been involved in a pro-creation science class last year (I'm homeschooled) It really gave the knowledge and background I needed to really understand what evolutionists believe, and what creationists can say to their theories. Now, as I go onto the public school system, I can be equipped to not be brainwashed by what they present.

The way many evolutionary professors makes me think of a string of conversation I had many times as a kid.

"Because why?"
"Just because!"

Meager explanations, and there seem to be too many hoaxes. Seriously, how can we trust this?

It's also so strange how they use circular reasoning, too. Fossils date rock layers/ rock layers date fossils.

God Bless,


Anonymous said...

I'm homeshooled so I don't have to listen to all that evolution nonsense, but I thought America was supposed to be a free country! If it's a free country then they should let christianity into schools. In the movie(biography?) "Expeled" at the begining they are at a collage and a student says "I have a question." The proffessor says "You have the same question every time." The student says "Well, you never answer it. Could there have been an intelligent Creator?" It doesn't give the answer but probobly he tried to get out of it again because they can't invent an explaination. Some evolutionists say Christianity makes more sense but they don't want to belive it.

Chris said...

If you're in an actual conversation one of the best things that you can get someone to do is think about what they're saying, four good questions are:
What do you mean by _____?
How do you know?
What difference does that make?
What if you're wrong?

Anonymous said...

I remember taking a Biology exam not too long ago and doing alright until it asked me to explain the endosymbiotic theory. I'd studied the theory, and I started writing out what I knew of it but eventually got to a point where I found that I just couldn't explain it because it made no sense.

I think it's ridiculous how my teachers teach theories like that so matter-of-factly and we're taught to either accept them or keep quiet because asking questions the teacher can't answer "made our class farther behind than the others."

Araken said...

Trouble about science is that philosophy trumps the facts each time.

Brianna said...

Amen! Good post!

Nathan Petrie said...

I too found that Yahoo article to be interesting lol.
What's dumb is that the "Scientists" came up with some wacked out idea as to how their story could still be true lol

They really don't like the truth do they? As my bibleteacher would say "Don't confuse me with the truth, I'm happy right here"

Paris said...

Good post. You would probably be very interested in watching a creation seminar taught by Kent Hovind. Here's the link for his first video on you tube:

I've been very interested in this topic for the past three years (i'm a christian), but one thing I've learned to keep in mind is this: I sit more important how we got here, or why were here?

Amy Deardon said...

Great post!I have no objection to the teaching of evolution, provided the evidence is presented fairly and in a non-biased fashion. Problem is, if you exclude the idea of any force higher than nature, then of course nature MUST supply the answers. Oh well.

Kel said...

I agree!! it's simply amazing what these people have come up with to divert their eyes from the "unwanted" truth. And very, very sad. It's said that you must have more faith to be an atheist than you need to be a Christian, and I believe it. It's easier to believe in a loving, all powerful Creator God than it is a bunch of "maybe's" masquerading as set-in-stone facts.

And I agree with Chris above: stuff like
how do you know evolution is true?, that 'ape-man is real?
what if you're wrong (and it's proven?, and you die?)
What difference does that make in life? in death?
What do you mean by "evolved"?
and stuff like that really are great tool. :) Those are from Bill Jack, a teacher/apologist.

WayneThomasBatson said...

Thanks for the good conversation all. You make some very good points, esp. about life purpose being the more important issue. I once had a conversation with a good guy who was honestly kicking the tires of Christianity, seeking. He asked what about evolution? I mean that's pretty much fact, right? All you Christians think that's wrong, so I doubt I can be a Christian."

I told him, "Look, the most important thing is what do you think about Jesus. There are believers who believe evolution happened but was guided by God-theistic evolution.I don't buy that personally, but some do. The bottom line is evolution/creation should never be something that keeps you from Jesus."

Two years later, the guy accepts Christ. If I'd pounded him on evolution at that earlier point, who knows what would've happened.

That said, in the marketplace of ideas, I can't stand to see people (kids, esp) being taught that they are cosmic accidents, that there's no meaning to life other than what you can get out of it during your 60-80 years on this mudball. That's the crime. Kids need to know that they were painstakingly designed and are intimately, ridiculously LOVED by God.

Kendall said...

I had a wonderful biology teacher who was able to conceal her beliefs about the evolution debate very well. She presented the material in the text, and when I pressed her for an answer to "Where did the matter that we evolved from come from?", she gave me one of those teacher/mom smiles that lets you know she knows the answer, but isn't going to tell you. She simply replied, "That's the question, isn't it?" and moved on. If more teachers challenged their students to find the answers to questions like that, I wouldn't have such a problem with evolution being taught in schools.

Anonymous said...

The thing that really gets me about arguments for evolution is that evolution seems to be taught as a FACT. However, in reality it's just a THEORY, and a theory is something that is a possibility to be true yet it doesn't have enough evidence to become a fact or a scientific law yet.

So I ask, if even scientists who believe in evolution call it the Theory of Evolution, why is it taught like it has an overwhelming amount of facts to support it?


WayneThomasBatson said...

Hi, Sarah, that galls me too. A theory is something believed to be true, but not proven to be true. However, these scientists aren't dumb. There are some absolutely brilliant folks out there who sincerely believe that evolution is true. And, they have lots of facts and evidence that they will throw at you in the blink of an eye. I just deny the conclusions they draw from their evidence. Evolution is not the most obvious conclusion at all. In fact, it might even be the least obvious conclusion. Based on the fossil record, based on observed phenomenon, based on common physiological traits--evolution is simply one way (one statistically unlikely way) for beings to have come about.

This, I suspect, is why even brilliant scientists like Richard Dawkins grasp at straws when we ask them questions about where everything came from. Evolution, they say. But what about the first materials that led to evolution, where did they come from? Dawkins once suggested that Aliens seeded our planet. Hmmm...

Anonymous said...

*Gasp* But where did the aliens come from?? Or the planet??? ;)

Brianna said...

Good point, Anonymous! If aliens seeded our planet, where did THEY come from?? =) You could say they evolved on their own planet, which was seeded by OTHER aliens, who were in turn seeded by other aliens, who were in turn...

All right, now it's just getting ridiculous.

By the way, Mr. Batson: I asked you back in June, I think it was, if you would be able to read the first chapter in a book I'm writing. You told me to check back with you in July or August. Are you still too busy or would you be able to do that now?

Anonymous said...

There would alyways have to be something there. I think it would be much easyer to belive in an eternal God than a bunch of stuff floating around in space forever. And are we then going to seed other planets?

WayneThomasBatson said...

Hi, Brianna

Unfortunately, I am still too busy. Trying to be a husband, father of four, as well as, writing two novels at the same time with full time teaching starting in less than a month, well...I'm just slammed.

Chris said...

I think that there's some confusion about the aliens seeding life on Earth (I'm confused about it) what I think they mean by that is that aliens spontaneously generated (for the sake of the explanation I will give them that) and evolved to a very high degree of intelligence, however if you were to take a look at their cells, they would still be very "simple." So for some reason or other, these aliens decided that they wanted to try to create life, ideally a more complicated form, so they designed a very very complex cell and seeded it in the Earth ocean, and eventually over billions of years that evolved into all the living things that we have today.
I don't know if that makes sense to anyone else but that is what I think that they think about the alien seed theory (or rather, hypothesis)
Please note that I am not trying to defend the theory but, rather, explain it

Brianna said...

Mr. Batson,
That's okay, I understand. Thanks anyway!

Kristi said...

I was reading in Isaiah 40 and came across the following verses:

12 Who has measured the waters in the hollow of His hand,
And marked off the heavens by the span,
And calculated the dust of the earth by the measure,
And weighed the mountains in a balance
And the hills in a pair of scales?
13 Who has directed the Spirit of the LORD,
Or as His counselor has informed Him?
14 With whom did He consult and who gave Him understanding?
And who taught Him in the path of justice and taught Him knowledge
And informed Him of the way of understanding?
15 Behold, the nations are like a drop from a bucket,
And are regarded as a speck of dust on the scales;
Behold, He lifts up the islands like fine dust.

Regardless of what science tries to tell us or "prove" to us, God is infinitely bigger and so awesome that it just can't compare.

Anonymous said...

This is a little piece of story that I wrote, I know this has nothing to do with the post, but I don't think anyone is going to look at the coments for a 2008 post now, so I just wanted some critique.

The black hooded man stood by the black van, a pistol in his holster.
Where is she?
Richard was the middleman, a transporter. His thoughts flew back to when he lived in the orchard.

The wide dirt road stretched down the field, going for miles before intermingling with a paved road. The old rope tire swing was frayed, he had overlooked that that day. His daughter swung on it in his memory, a tear came to his eye, it spilled over his eyelid, streaking down to his nose. However much he wanted it, however much he cared, he couldn't stop the images from coming. The autumn leaves Raced by, they were dead, the brown lifeless forms of the leaves would soon mirror his daughter's corpse. He had to get the antidote. Richard fell to his knees, he had made a mistake, he had to fix it.
Richard squeezed the 3x3 frame, the six year old face of the girl was smiling, she was peering over her father's shoulder, his shoulder. The glass cracked, the fissure in the frame echoed the snapping of the rope swing, a vision of horror in his mind.
“I'm doing this for her! She is going to get better she has to.” Richard said with intensity. In his head he saw her fall ten feet and land on her head.
Richard closed his eyes, falling to his knees, the tears came anyway. Richard willed with all his heart that the pain-filled images would drift away, he was getting money for the treatment tonight. Wiping his tears, Richard propped himself up on one foot, he still couldn't muster enough energy to get up, the images came again, Richard was there in the ambulance, holding his darling Rachelle's hand.

The images passed, and Richard got up, waiting for the exchange.

Justin B. said...

The illogical element of evolution lies with the beginning stages, being mostly fabricated. Instead of being reasoned through actual knowledge. Various evolutionists purport that Creationism is mostly supported through religious text (that being the bible). But from many of the fossils that have been discovered, most creatures seemed to have been formed within a similar quadrant of time.

Now does it really matter how God created the universe since the important element lies in that whatever he did; it was truly perfect and flawless. In addition, during some of my agnostic periods, I could never fully commit to the belief that our creation was all merely an accident.

As during my lowest periods of sadness when my heart's stuttering to it's last beat. I grasp onto the hope God has instilled within me that there lies meaning within this life. Even if it's extremely short amongst the full scope of time. I just cannot fathom that something so intricately designed could all have been created from a cosmic accident. A cosmic accident which is void of any real catalyst.

Josiah said...

It seems so. . .well to put it plainly, stupid, how could any scientist believe in evolution if they actually study biology?

Anonymous said...

Hello everyone! First off, Mr. Batson, I absolutely LOVE your books! I consumed them! I waiting on The Final Storm at the library, and I read The Door Within and The Rise of the Wrym Lord at least thrice each.

Anyway, I believe a bit differently than most, granted. I'm a Christian Evolutionist. I believe with my heart, soul and mind that Jesus is all-powerful, the Creator, and loves me so much that He sacrificed His own Son. But, I believe in Evolution too. I'm done some research, asked a bunch of questions between my father and teachers, and I finally figured a bit out. I don't have all the answers about the Flood, and the dinosaurs, but I think that God did use evolution. Who is He that He is limited by the English language and our short-sighted minds? I know He could've done it had He wanted too. In the Bible it says that man was made in God's image. Oh, how that is so true! But, I think that means spiritually. Not physically. Our bodies are of the earth, not of God. We'll be getting new ones when we die, anyway. But, for example, when you give something away to charity, or give a gift to be selfless, that's a good thing. Everyone knows and acknowledges that. That's the Jesus inside you. You see what I mean?

God and science are intricately intertwined, not at war. When you see a sunset, or feel a light misty rain, that is gases and weather patterns... and God. It might be a blow to our pride, but still. I'm still doing research, but so far, I'm thinking that Christian Evolutionists have got it. What do you guys think?

Josiah said...

I was thinking that maybe you could post a post that you can just comment your story ideas and get feed back, would something like that be possible, Mister Batson?

Justin B. said...

I wouldn't deem myself exclusively a creationist or an evolutionist. As I believe that the important aspect of God's creation is that it was wonderful and inexplicable by our own human intellect. And "anonymous," science ultimately proves God and displays God in his indescribable and complex beauty. How are we to explain the depth of his creation by limiting him to one process? When he potentially could have used a myriad of ways in which to create Earth and life within it.

In some ways God magically summoning the objects and biological life which make up the Earth seems to lack God's complexity. Since a God working with natural processes seems to be the God I've envisioned from reading the text of the bible. Now I don't entirely believe within the drawn out process of evolution; but I do believe that God could have created the universe through one given explosion.

Who are we to ultimately limit God to the creation story? When these texts are simply summarizing the ingenuity of God's creation. Why eschew science when it fits naturally with God? Especially when every newfangled scientific discovery only reveals his existence.

Many scientists cannot deny the fact that it's improbable for this world to have been created accidentally. Because by looking at the concept of "cause and effect," there would be no definitive cause for the impetus of the universe. How can scientists blindly tack on this detail and expect other scientists to have faith in that we're all an accident.

And that's something in which I could never fully rationalize. Since anything and everything has a cause. For there's no effect without a cause to bring about that intended or unintended effect.

Anyways, whatever manner the Earth was created. We must trust and accept the fact that it was wonderful and will be something we shall never comprehend fully.

Chris said...

I happen to disagree about God using evolution:

Genesis 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

I think that this is saying that God created all things and they reproduced only after their kind, so how could they change and create species?

Also, I am fairly certain that all form of evolution require a long period of time, much longer than a day, I think that Genesis clearly states that the day are 24 hours in each day, after all six days The Bible says:

And the evening and the morning were the (first, second third, etc) day.

Notice how it says, evening and morning? that means that the day is a regular 24 hour day

Also, all plants were created on the third day, but pollinators (birds and insects) were not created until days later (birds were the fifth day and "creeping things" the sixth day) if these were the long periods of time that evolution calls for then all plants requiring pollination would have died before there were any pollinators

Paris said...

Christian Evolutionist:

Genesis 1:1

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

A said...

Hello everyone - me again. First off, I think Justin B. summed it up almost perfectly. It doesn't matter how He did it, it just matters that He did and that He can.

Also, to Chris. I think that's a bit too literal. The Bible also refers to, in Revelation, I think, the "four corners of the earth." But the earth is not flat. God isn't limited by our calender. This would take billions of years. And, there is a verse in Psalms that says, "one day in the Lord's courts is like one thousand on Earth," or something similar.

Also, the "after the own kind." They did produce after their own kind. The change came very gradually, though. Like, how did we get people of different races? and hair and eye colors? Why do some people have glasses and some freckles? I think we're a bit different from Adam and Eve. We have to be. There's too much diversity, you see.

The point is, that though I think it is Evolution, God could've used whatever process He wanted. The point is not how He created, but that He did, and that He exsists and loves everyone in this "spinning mudball (The Door Within Trilogy)".

Also, to Mr. Batson. Thank you again for writing such an amazing series. I absolutely love it! Thank you!

Neil said...

All that diversity mentioned in the last post may have actually originated during the whole Tower of Babel incident, as speculated by Answers in Genesis.

Also, I would argue that it does matter HOW God did it, not just WHAT he did. God wrote the bible. God says that the bible is true. So, why can't I take it literally? Don't you take literally "you will be saved though faith"? If you conform your interpretation of the bible to the latest scientific theory, then you shouldn't believe the bible at all, because the latest excepted scientific theory's claim to disprove the bible.

Kristi said...

I have to agree with Neil, it does matter how God did it, not just that He did. He is Almighty God, the Creator, we shouldn't put limitations on Him. Just because it is incomprehensible to others does not make it impossible for God.

Psalm 33:6-9 says, "6By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And by the breath of His mouth all their host.
7He gathers the waters of the sea together as a heap; He lays up the deeps in storehouses. 8Let all the earth fear the LORD: Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him. 9For He spoke, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast."

If you cannot take God and His Word literally, then what is the point? I realize there are some figures of speech in the Bible, but I don't think that is something that is happening in regards to creation. Do you really think you could trust God if you can't take His Word literally? We need to give credit to God for being God. He is God Most High, the Creator, the All Sufficient One; He is more than we will ever know or understand. He doesn't need science or anyone else to prove Him or His works.

A said...

You're right - It does matter. Though, maybe not as much. I do take very literally, "you will be saved through faith." It's hard to tell what to take literally or not. But, other verses help out a litte. The one about the "day in the Lord's court is a thousand on earth" would help, for example.

Now, again with interpretation. The latest scientific theory DOES NOT in any way prove that God does not exsist. It's just how the media and scientists twist the facts, but the facts still reflect. If we discover a new species or really anything, it just shows how awesome God is. Though most people take it as "Look how smart our genius brains are!".

You should'nt rely only on the Bible, because God also gave us something else: experience and the ability to reason. The Bible is absolutely key, and if you take science, research, ask questions, etc. they both compliment each other.

Also, you can take the Bible literally in most areas. Even in the human race we say things that people interpret differently. Like sarcasm, though I'm not overly sure that God is sarcastic in the Bible, except when Elijah taunted the people at the altar. Anyway, the point being is this: The Bible is true and everything you read in it is true. But, it depends on how you read and how you think.

Honestly, with all this evidence everywhere, I can't imagine this creation fitting into a week. He could've done it had he wanted to, but that's too simple. It's like a college professor doing a elementary school project with crayons. Why not show how amazing He is and what He can do?

Read this article on Fish Wars by Wendee Holtcamp. It's pretty good. You know how they have the Christian fish and the Darwin fish. I saw on this guy's car a Christian fish being eaten by a Darwin fish. There was a third fish that was eating the Darwin fish, though. A Christian fish.

Check out the article. I think that might clear a few things up.

Anyway, thanks guys. I'll check in later.

Anonymous said...

And what evidence is that? And why would God put things in ways that are contradictory to what actually happened in Genesis? He doesn't anywhere else in the Bible. And about us being different...isn't that pointed out in the Bible?
Another thing: God created the different components that support life on each day. He made man on the last day for a reason. How then, do you say that everything evolved at once? The animals keep all living beings alive with different ways. They would have all died if they weren't exactly what supports life, at the exact same time. Everything would be dead now if it took billons of years, even if the chemicals did come together. Yes, God COULD have used it. He's not limited. But he just didn't, that's what the Bible says, and what SCIENCE says.

WayneThomasBatson said...

Thanks for keeping the dialogue respectful it should be among Christians. I don't think the Bible allows for "Theistic Evolution," the thought that evolution is the way creation came about but God orchestrated it all. However, I don't believe that a belief in evolution will disqualify a person from heaven. God tells us "if on any point you disagree, pray and God will make it clear." (Bat Paraphrase by the way).

As for why are there so many variations in people: skin color, facial features, etc. That's what we call microevolution--subtle changes that do not change the species into something else. We observe microevolution occurring all the time. However, if one generation of people developed a third eyeball capable of shooting laser beams...well, then we'd have to reconsider.

Just to reiterate a few things: 1. Biologists and Scientists are NOT stupid. They are among the brightest minds in the world. But, just like everyone else, they are seeing through the glass darkly. They are heavily influenced by their biases. So when they see the human hand sharing mechanical features with an ape hand or a fish fin or a bat wing, their bias won't let them see the obvious possibility that the same brilliant Author created all these things.

2. These folks are sincere, but they are deceived. The evidence in the fossil record flies in the face of all that they believe. And since Darwin, evolutionists have constantly morphed their theories to match newer discoveries--which is, after all, the scientific method. Hypothesize, test, change hypothesis. The problem is, they aren't changing their hypothesis enough. Look at the evidence and go the WHOLE way. Evolution isn't remotely the most likely hypothesis.

3. The biggest problem is this: while the scientific community has been flip-flopping their theory to fit new discoveries, they've been presenting their theory as FACT to the world at large. This is evil on a hellish scale. Generations of kids are being taught that they have no meaning besides that which they assign themselves. That they are cosmic accidents with no higher purpose. Whole schools of psychology have risen to tell people to "look within themselves" to make improvements in their lives. Uhm...if they could do that, why would they have come to the counselor? Hello.

Josiah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Ah, I had quite the struggle over evolution with my Biology teacher... The thing is, they act like by connecting a few unrelated dots they come up with a true, full, unchangable truth. The very presence of consciousness of right and wrong already speaks volumes for purpose. But to denote everything around us as a mere random chance? The scientists are only contradicting themselves by saying chaos was brought into order by what? Countless what if's? Chaos gave birth to an elaborate order by mere chance? When will they see?

A said...

Hello guys! To Anonymous: Actually, everything probably didn’t evolve at once. I bet it didn’t. Man probably took way longer. And, you know what, that’s why we are more complex beings than my cat.

Hello Mr. Batson. First off, I absolutely agree. Whether or not you accept Creationism or Evolution, God still loves you, and if you believe He died for you, you’re saved. And all scientists are smart, though incorrect sometimes. And, they deserve respect no matter what. Rather, everyone does. So, thanks everyone for keeping this civil. I’ve had other conversations about this that were just downright rude. (Also, I love that verse: “If on any point you disagree…” Do you know what book it is in? I’d like to copy it down.)

Also, couldn’t just a lot of microevolutions happened over 15 billion years? Granted, that would be quite a change, but I think it could happen.

The problem is kinda on both sides (MAJOR GENERALIZATION!) Not all people are like this, but still. Scientists need to finally give God the credit, and drop their pride. God gave us a brain, which is wonderful, but GOD gave it to us. Not monkeys. Not the cosmos. Not chance. Also, there are some parts of evolution I don’t agree with, besides the atheistic standpoint. Women are “fully formed” and people of African-American descent are not in the least inferior in any way. But, evolution is normally associated with not believing in God. My teacher (I go to a Christian school) told us about Theistic Evolution, and the kids were just in shock. “No way! Really? Can you still believe that? But, wait, they believe in God and everything?” It was crazy.

There are some gaps. But, there are gaps in the Theory of Gravity, I think. And, that’s a theory too. No one has been down to the core of the earth, no matter what Jules Verne says.

Anonymous said...

Then everything was perfect for so many billion years, and the different components of life supported each other even though they were much different?
But yes, I do agree, being a Christian Evolvutionist' won't keep you from Heaven.

Barie-ah Hue-en-la said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chris said...

I think that the Bible is literal, unless otherwise designated. I would also like to point out that "four corners of the earth" is an expression, but even then you might say that North, South, East and West are the four corners of the earth.
I would also say that, people changing over time is not macro evolution (as Mr. Batson pointed out) and I would be a fool to deny the existence of micro evolution (which has been proven).
I do have a couple of questions though: if we evolved, at what point did God deem us worthy to be made in his image? If it did take millions of years for people to evolve, wouldn't an innumerable about of creatures have had to die? if they did then death could not be part of the curse God put on man because he sinned.
Now, I realize that people do not have to believe the same way that I do, in fact, I don't think it really matters to your eternal salvation what you believe about the earth's beginning, so why have I argued my point? Because of something I learned, I spent the best week of my life at Worldview Academy and one of the many things that hit home (one of the smaller things in fact) was something a lecturer said: Know your doctrine.
If you do not know your doctrine then how can you possibly be prepared to face a non-christian and their questions? Never accept something that is just presented to you, you have The Truth at your disposal, always ground what you believe in the Bible, you must have a fixed moral point outside of yourself to which you can appeal. Why do I take the Bible literally? because that is the way I believe it was meant for us to use. Did all the water in Egypt turn to blood? could it perhaps have been some sort of bacteria? I have actually heard this before, but the Bible is quite clear: Exodus 7:20 And Moses and Aaron did so, as the LORD commanded; and he lifted up the rod, and smote the waters that were in the river, in the sight of Pharaoh, and in the sight of his servants; and all the waters that were in the river were turned to blood.
God can do ANYTHING.
I'm sorry for my tirade, I hope somebody will be able to get something useful out of this.


Joraiem said...

the movie Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed is a great movie about Intelligent Design Vs. Evolution. I really thought it was a great movie.

when Richard Dawkins is interviewed sometimes he simply says, "I don't know how life started"

Why don't they think that possibly there could be a Creator?

Joraiem said...
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Kristi said...

I watched Expelled, also. It is a documentary by Ben Stein and it was very good. I would definitely recommend it. This is the website for it, I think the thing that amazed me the most was when I think there was one man who said anyone who believed in creation or God was crazy or stupid But I remember as I watched the movie that I felt great pity for someone so deceived. He has so deceived himself into believing there is no God and some day he will find out how very wrong he is. There is no room in my life for anger or hate against someone like that, only pity.

Seth Skogerboe said...

Right on, Mark! Evolution is completely ludicrous in my opinion. Say you keep a monkey in a cage with a monkey of the oposite sex for years on end. What will they do. Bio-cellular scientists believe that they will, over a period of, Oh, a billion, years (give or take a couple million,)they mate and ever so slowly involve in to living, breathing humans.And we say that monkeys are monkeys. period. You think that the christian theory is even the slightest bit more propable? Are scientest the real geniouses(please forgive the spelling) we think they are? Text books are overflowing with garbage about the earth being billions of years old, that we were evolved from scum on the bottom of the ocean, an ocean that just happened to be created from a formula of nothing = nothing! They tell us the we were origanlly evolved from guck in the sea. They say the theory of intellegent design is stupid! Scientists need to get their facts straight. I hope you have benefitted from reading this and thank you for speaking your thoughts on this subject.
God bless you,
Seth Skogerboe

Barie-ah Hue-en-la said...
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Joraiem said...

I agree, scientists aren't stupid!!

Paris said...

Okaaay...everyone's said so much I'm trying to slow my crazy brain that's thinking a thousand things per second!

1. I do not believe in evolution, or that God had any part in evolution.

2. "a said" - you said that "with all this evidence everywhere, I can't imagine this creation fitting into a week. He could've done it had he wanted to, but that's too simple. It's like a college professor doing a elementary school project with crayons. Why not show how amazing He is and what He can do? "

I believe He DID show us how amazing He is by creating everything in just 6 days! What is simple about that? He spoke everything in existence; He didn't have to use millions of years or a big bang. He created time for goodness sake!

3. I have had LOTS of people and teachers tell me what "they think". One teacher said there couldn't have been an ice age, another said there was, another spoke against speaking in tongues, another mistranslated a verse in the Bible to my history class, etc. I know they are all sincere Christians with different ideas and I believe they're all going to heaven. Having different theories or ideas does not mean God rejects you and closes the pearly gates in your face.



Barie-ah Hue-en-la said...

LOL, I like your pun about evolution being "Nonsense by accident" Even if I were one of the scientist that believe evolution, I'd still have to laugh!!


Paris said...

I found a blog you might want to check out:

Kendra Logan said...

I loved your post, and I loved your response about Theistic Evolution. Very good post!

Evergreena said...

Great post, great discussion.

For biology, I did "Exploring Creation with Biology" by Dr. Jay Wile. In it there is a unit on Evolution, and I found it very eye-opening. I saw how micro-evolution (changes within species) is pretty much a fact, and how macro-evolution (changing from one species into a new species) had many, many flaws with the idea. The one that made me roll my eyes was the whole thing about genetic "mutations." It's a completely different thing from micro-evolution!

And a few nights ago, my family watched "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed." I HIGHLY recommend it for anyone who doesn't fully understand all the complexities of the issue.

Well, that's all I have time for, but thanks for a great discussion.

Nivas said...

You can't bury your head in the sand and ignore the truth forever. All the evidence points towards the theory of evolution. No one knows for sure how or why the first cell formed, but it is certain that life evolved from that. What makes you so certain that your explanation of the origin of life is correct when there is no evidence for it, and in fact there is evidence against it? And by the way, evolution is not just a theory. It explains so much, and is the basis for the entire field of biology, and as such many scientists are considering making it a law of science. Will you Christians please stop trying to force pro-Creation science classes into schools? They only deprive the next generations of crucial, significant information and slow the pace of progress.

Chris said...

Nivas, I'm really pretty confused about Evolution, could you tell me how it works? how do you know what you're saying is true? who was there that saw it happen and told you? what evidence do you have?

Matthew Schoch said...

Hey, did you know that our embryos are actually very different in their first stages; and in order to make them look alike, scientists took embryos in different stages.